PDA

View Full Version : Volvo Help (or lack of it)



tonic110
Thursday 8th June 2006, 09:35
Just to let you all know that if your car has passed the 100k mark, and your
ETM fails, Volvo will not help in any way (apart from charging around £650 to fit a new one) :cussing:
Tony.

arbee
Thursday 8th June 2006, 09:45
I take it you have read all the threads about ETMs just in case? If its the original part, to be honest I think 100k is a pretty decent life from any component. Would you expect a 100k warranty on a replacement part?

markt4
Thursday 8th June 2006, 10:00
fit new clocks???? it must be cheaper that £650

adriancole
Thursday 8th June 2006, 10:14
Well that is rather rubbish, In America it is ten years/200,000miles on the etm....

Al115
Thursday 8th June 2006, 12:13
Please read the previous threads on the ETM topic! Basically, it seems that every individual ETM case is open to debate, outside North America.

Engineer
Thursday 8th June 2006, 18:59
I take it you have read all the threads about ETMs just in case? If its the original part, to be honest I think 100k is a pretty decent life from any component. Would you expect a 100k warranty on a replacement part?

Yes to a certain extent mate as Volvo always preach their 25 odd year life cycle for all their cars lol. For a Ford no lol. :wink:

arbee
Thursday 8th June 2006, 19:01
Yes to a certain extent mate as Volvo always preach their 25 odd year life cycle for all their cars lol. For a Ford no lol. :wink:
i'll bare that in mind when my turbo gets a bit smokey then ;)

Engineer
Thursday 8th June 2006, 19:05
i'll bare that in mind when my turbo gets a bit smokey then ;)

All joking aside Rich we all know the problem and its just to much for the company to support outside the US hence the "we will consider each case on its merit" stance. End of story IMHO. :smileypul

arbee
Thursday 8th June 2006, 19:07
no i do agree with you. seems to be a case of 'he who shouts loudest'

Rufe
Thursday 8th June 2006, 19:10
i got to say though, how many manufacturers would could cover a component after 100,000 miles?

Engineer
Thursday 8th June 2006, 19:21
i got to say though, how many manufacturers would could cover a component after 100,000 miles?

Good point, but how many manufacturers have built their reputations on the reliability mentioned previously? Non in my book. The MM system is cack mate. :wink:

volvotuning
Thursday 8th June 2006, 21:03
Replacing an ETM cost roughly the same as replacing a turbo. Plenty of Volvos have needed turbos replacing around 100K mark. But that doesn't impact on the longevity of the vehicle and neither does a faulty ETM. I still think that the modern Volvos will do big miles just like the older ones, but with the electronics and mechanics being more complex, there will be more components that fail during the lifetime of the car.

So perhaps perceived reliability may be worse, but the longevity is still there IMHO.

Adam.

Engineer
Thursday 8th June 2006, 21:37
Replacing an ETM cost roughly the same as replacing a turbo. Plenty of Volvos have needed turbos replacing around 100K mark. But that doesn't impact on the longevity of the vehicle and neither does a faulty ETM. I still think that the modern Volvos will do big miles just like the older ones, but with the electronics and mechanics being more complex, there will be more components that fail during the lifetime of the car.

So perhaps perceived reliability may be worse, but the longevity is still there IMHO.

Adam.

No Adam, not when it comes to the running mechs and associated electronics, we ain't talkng, dare I say It French stuff here we are talking quality and in that case the MM system is still cack mate IMHO.

adriancole
Thursday 8th June 2006, 22:08
Basic design flaw springs to mind.......and i mean basic.....when something effectivly rubs on another, the weakest link will wear out. Now if that happens to be a major part of a component..ie conductive material thats what i would call a design flaw.

Quality it aint.....

volvotuning
Thursday 8th June 2006, 22:33
Anyway, the new ETMs are a different design so I guess the issue has been addressed.

Adam.

adriancole
Thursday 8th June 2006, 22:37
Interesting, can the ecu on say a '99 model be reprogrammed to use one of the newer ones? and what other kit is different on the fly by wire stuff?

Adrian

After_Shock
Thursday 8th June 2006, 23:49
We have a number of cars at work which have covered 300k + and these are 2003 onwards models, one S80 has done 435k and is a 2001 so theirs no problem with mileage and Volvo DOES have the longest average life span of any car out there.

Again its great that people slag Volvo off for a faulty part that starts failing at X mileage and X age on its cars, why doesnt anyone start having a go at the people who supplied the part. Considering it woudlnt start to be an issue when all the cars had covered that X amount of miles or reached that X age how was Volvo to know.

Again just another example of how people are so quick to criticise but never praise the cars, how many people have had there lifes saved or avoided serious injury because of the safety in a Volvo? Obviously not many as never hear from them, get the point.

arbee
Thursday 8th June 2006, 23:59
one S80 has done 435k and is a 2001 so theirs no problem with mileage
wow! thats some annual mileage!


why doesnt anyone start having a go at the people who supplied the part.

because as far as the consumer is concerned, volvo chooses the part, volvo supplies the part to the punter, and volvo has a reputation and a responsibility to uphold :)


Again just another example of how people are so quick to criticise but never praise the cars, how many people have had there lifes saved or avoided serious injury because of the safety in a Volvo? Obviously not many as never hear from them, get the point.
I think most are appreciate of the volvo's qualtities - we wouldnt be on here if we weren't - however with such a high expectaion of longevity, there are always going to be issues of disapointment with the failing of a part that is so well documented - whoever is at fault!

After_Shock
Friday 9th June 2006, 00:06
Yeah Volvo chose the part however the parts people are in business and if neither them or Volvo had any idea of the fact these parts would fail, who is at fault? Volvo would never have chose these bits intentionally would they, no business would due to the costs implied in the later stages, it just doesnt make sense.

Also as mentioned 100k and probably an average life span of 6-9years is more than acceptable for a part, ive known people with 1 year old land rovers have to replace entire gearboxe's and drivetrains, people with BM's have to get their engines rebuilt, Citroens have entire ECU changes etc etc. Im not saying Volvo's dont have problems but that life span and mileage on a single part does not justify the grief Volvo has received from there customers.

adriancole
Friday 9th June 2006, 06:48
Its not really about lifespan and milage, well for me it is not....it is about safety....which as you say After_Shock is what Volvos are renowned for.....

The said part, ie the ETM, can fail without warning.....the engine just cuts out completely.....you can be overtaking, doing '70' in the fast lane or cornering quickly.......in any of these situations having an engine cut out is rather scary and potentially very dangerous. That in my book is not a safe item.

Personaly i dont want to test a Volvos safety, done that already in my old 440 and dont really want to repeat it, though happy to be in a Volvo again if it does one day happen again.

Adrian

tonic110
Friday 9th June 2006, 09:30
hang on a mo folks, I wasnt SLAGGING volvo, indeed I will still buy Volvo in the future. I am just very dissapointed that volvo wont help even though they know the part to be potentialy defective (North America proving the point). I KNOW my motor has done high mileage, but then again isnt a volvo supposed to? The ATM failing can become a life threatening situation, and because I have done lots of miles, does that mean that my life and that of my family is worth less than someone who has only done 50k? :icon_soap

Cheers
Tony

Rufe
Friday 9th June 2006, 13:57
no its a good and valid point, my point was that they have to draw the line somewhere, its the same with all manufacturer's

tonic110
Friday 9th June 2006, 14:29
Heyup Rufe !
Like I say I was not slagging Volvo, they did not after all manufacture the part. What I WAS trying to say was , as Volvo are always thinking of safety first and foremost for their customers, and as the ETM could become a safety hazard (those of faulty design that is) why did Volvo not do a recall, rectify the problem and recoup the cost from the manufacturer of the part ? Don`t tell me , I KNOW I live in dreamland LOL.

Cheers
Tony

After_Shock
Friday 9th June 2006, 18:24
The problem could well be with the part manufacturer, they may well have refused to replace the item as the amount of them they have supplied would probably bankrupt the company.

If Volvo didnt care about safety they wouldnt fit £3k+ worth of safety systems into every car would they and they are continually improving those systems.

Rufe
Friday 9th June 2006, 19:03
i keep hearing of people worrying about what it will be like if it go's at 70mph on the motorway (a fair point, definitely), but is volvo right and this is not a safety issue? dont get me wrong, i hope it isn't myself, as like i said, i have ETM on mine, which has never been changed and im around 100k, but out of all the cases i have heard of them going, the light comes on, cars runs like sh*t, especially at idle, and they come into the dealer to get a new one. i havent heard of anyone actually being killed or injured though, and i hope it stays that way obviously. if there have been no injuries or deaths and yet had an extremly high failure rate can that then mean that volvo may be right and its not a safety issue?

and as for volvo not doing a recall on this, they have often done recalls on safety related parts, look at how many fan recalls they did last year on the V70 range... we were doing 3 or 4 a day easily, basically, when ever a car came into the dealership they were getting the fan changed. that must have cost volvo millions in total (a good £300 or so per job, and that was for the bulk of the larger volvo's made over the last few years), so i dont believe that they would be avoiding a recall if there was a genuine safety concern here.

dont want to defend something like this if i thought they were wrong, but i can see it from both sides here. what im saying is that if Volvo genuinely thought it was a safety issue, they wouldnt be avoiding a recall, as they have proved many times in the past.

After_Shock
Friday 9th June 2006, 19:55
Theirs currently a re-call on Xc90's with regards to suspension bushes or links, cant remember which and theirs shed loads of them getting done.

With regards to ETM's being a high failure rate I disagree, ive only ever seen 3 get done and asked and the service people say they only get one every other month and theirs other stuff which fails alot more often than that on cars of the ages and mileages involved.

Rufe
Friday 9th June 2006, 20:06
after shock, if i think back to a couple of years ago, in work we were doing a couple of the ETM's a day sometimes. they were a much bigger problem then, but once they have been changed, i havent really seen any come back in again

ahhpigsy
Friday 9th June 2006, 20:07
As i have just had to replace the ETM and the MAF at the same time (£1000) i know the effect this failing has and i would say it is a safety issue.
The failure is not instant and it can be a few months of varying symptoms b4 it gets bad. Mine was looked at by main dealer and independant on many occasions whilst starting to fail and they did not know the cause, thought is was coils, petrol pressure etc. The safety issue comes into play on a motorway, you can be cruisng at 70, put your foot down to overtake at say 80- 85 get half a length past the other car and your power goes to zilch, if there are cars behind following your moves they panic and slam on the anchors, then the usual chain reaction behind them etc.
Another problem is that as the power goes you automatically put your foot down to try and get back to speed then all the power comes on at once and you shoot forward at a rate of knots, in traffic that is quite scary.
Volvo should address this problem, it should not be one rule for N America and one for Europe, if no one got compensated that would be an end to it but when some are it does not seem fair.
I am trying to get some of my grand back off volvo as 70k miles with full history but will not hold my breath.

Steve