Uneven Idle

[gjb71]

Can anyone help out, i've got a 2001 v70 t5 unmodded 85k on clock, its started to rev unevenly. only seems to do it on idle sits at around 700rpm then drops to 600 and bounces back up to 800, does it a couple of times before settling back at 700.
Have noticed that if i turn the air con off it seems to sort its self out and if stood outside you can hear a click from engine bay before revs go off on one.
Codes have been checked and theres nowt showing up.

cheers g

[JUDGENINJA]

Is the the rubber elbow arising again. ????

As your facing the engine look to the left of the inlet manifold for a rubber elbow (if fitted to your car). It's a common thing to break down over time...

[Vikingxl]

Could be the dreaded etm

[JUDGENINJA]

oh yeah...it's one of those cars.....

[gjb71]

oh yeah...it's one of those cars.....

what do u mean its one of those cars, pls tell me i'm frightened now

[JUDGENINJA]

Don't worry too much... the ETM is a common fault that is particular to V70's. Volvo reckoned 80% will fail at some point.

Because mine is an 850 I have a normal cable, so you've "got one of those cars"......sorry I didn't want to worry you too much.....

[gjb71]

damn those so called advances in technology, ah well i can live with it for the time being, runs fine other than that.

[kasi232]

Hi I had the same problem with my v70 t5 when I got it.So I took it to volvo for diagnostics, it turned out to be the fuel ecu cost me £475 for a new one runs fine now

[rgracin]

Sounds like the ETM. I have '01 T5 as well. I took my ETM off myself, cleaned the gunk out, put it back on, and it has been perfect since. If you leave it, it just get's worst, and you can start to feel it getting erratic through the rev range.

The butterfly in the throttle body is angled slightly at idle, and the gunk narrows the gap so the engine can't idle properly, the 'brain' squirts more fuel in to stop it stalling, then leaves it to idle and it all happens again, hence the hunting revs.

Do it yourself if you can. It's a little fiddly, but cheaper than getting a garage to do it, and far more satisfying.

[Wobbly Dave]

You're all taking rubbish!! Stop scaring the man!!

If indeed the problem goes away when you disengage the A/C then that's perfectly normal. The clicking is the clutch on the A/C pump - also very normal. ETM failure - the idle is all over the shop very pronounced - not just +/- 100 rpm!!

YOU DONT HAVE A FAILED ETM - COZ YOU GOT NO CODES!!!!

What you do have is the air conditioning on. Which is a nice thing!!

Look at my answers on here...
http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/t10027-another-etm-question-.html

To check a ETM you need to turn the A/c off - rev the engine - and watch the counter fall - it should return smoothly and slow for the last 200 rpm.

[gjb71]

thanks for all the above, dave i tried turning the a/c off and revin it. it does exactly as u said slows for the last few hundred before returning to norm, this thing mithered me though coz i now had the silver landshark for around 18 months nad this has only just started, before this it was steady as a rock

[SaffronC70]

Hi

I have "one of those cars", lol !

Mine does the same thing occasionally, dropping to 600 and back up etc, sometimes +/- 100rpm at idle and sometimes when the aircon cuts on/off.

VT told me to get an ETM, I did and it was the same ! The car has had two more ETMs since then and the idle is still the same, lol.

Most days it is fine though . . . still looking for the answer.

Chris

[roadrunner]

Hi i to have one of those cars and mine has an uneven idle, thought i might have a go at cleaning the etm but can anyone point me in the right direction as to where it is under the bonnet. 2001 v70t5 ex plod. (yes i know i shouldn`t have but it was very cheap).

cheers

roadrunner

[Frisbee78]

Hi all

I have the same problem with my V70 T5 (99) but only when the engine is warm. Sometimes (rarely) it will idle steadly for 5 secs at 900 rpm but then it will start bouncing up and down between 800 and 1000 rpm again. It does it regardless of the aircon setting.

My wife's 850 had the same problem a few years ago but I'm not sure what was done to solve the problem back then. The fuel systems of the 2 cars are probably different anyway.

Just a thought: is the ETM controled by the ECU? If so, would an ECU upgrade solve the problem? If so, how much would Volvo take for doing this? Maybe a RICA upgrade while we're at it?

Also, when you say to clean the ETM, do you mean clean the pipe and butterfly (the mechanics)?

Seb

[SaffronC70]

I have solved this problem - it is the non-return valve between the EVAP valve and the intake piping before the turbo.

As this fails open it creates an air leak affecting idle quality.

The valve is located on the piping on the side of the engine block on the air box side - small grey valve and can be pulled apart without tools to be checked.

I added another valve in line instead of replacing the failed one, as Volvo want £48 for the valve including new piping unfortunetly.

Hope this helps !

Chris

[Frisbee78]

Thanks for your reply.

How did you go about testing the non-return valve?

As I don't have a Haynes manual yet, can you confirm I identified the valve correctly? (see pics)

Thanks for your help.

Seb

[SaffronC70]

Hi there

Image 28 is your boost control solenoid (BCS)
Image 29 is the EVAP valve ! 10 points there !

Attached pic is of the extra valve I have put inline in the (middle of the pic), just before that is the non-return valve.

To test - suck it and see ! should only allow you to suck and not blow.

Easiest to pull it off at the turbo end and suck there, lol.

Chris

[Frisbee78]

Cool! Thanks. Now I know what to look for :)

New car, new things to learn... ;)

[Frisbee78]

Well, I checked the non-return valve and it works as it should.

So back to square one... :(

[Frisbee78]

Hi all

I just found out that there is another non return valve on the EVAP line between the T union and the intake manifold and mine's dead.
Chris, where did you get your replacement? The £45 price tag from Volvo doesn't really suit... ;)

Another thing: is there an idle control valve on a ME7 turbo engine? I think the ETM makes it redundant, but want to check.

Seb

[monkey_boy]

My 2000 C70 T5 has a similar problem only much more pronounced (its booked into Volvo for a service so wasnt too worried) But mine fluctuates from stalling speed (600 rpm) to 1000rpm. However the drive is fine its just the idle so i am not sure its the ECM. just out of interest Saffron C70 where did you get the polybush torgue bar mount? Polybush dont list one (although their sketch shows it) My original was shagged and i bought one from eurocar parts (original replacement) but typically the new one was too small! Had to pack it out as a temp fix. I fancied a spangly yellow poly one anyhow :)

[Wobbly Dave]

Idle does move slightly when the aircon is on. Just be sure it isnt that.

I'd get the uprate OEM top mount. Not as noisy as a poly but more reliable - but I do prefer the quiet

[SaffronC70]

My 2000 C70 T5 has a similar problem only much more pronounced (its booked into Volvo for a service so wasnt too worried) But mine fluctuates from stalling speed (600 rpm) to 1000rpm. However the drive is fine its just the idle so i am not sure its the ECM. just out of interest Saffron C70 where did you get the polybush torgue bar mount? Polybush dont list one (although their sketch shows it) My original was shagged and i bought one from eurocar parts (original replacement) but typically the new one was too small! Had to pack it out as a temp fix. I fancied a spangly yellow poly one anyhow :)

Mine used to fluctuate to stalling speed as well occasionally.

My idle doesn't even shift with the aircon cutting in now.

My poly bush is the large version from Kalmar-union.com (make sure you ask for the ME7 version!); installation, for me, was easy, just needed basic tools and the bush fitted in with BFF (brute force factor).

Chris

[SaffronC70]

Hi all

Another thing: is there an idle control valve on a ME7 turbo engine? I think the ETM makes it redundant, but want to check.

Seb

No it doesn't, the ETM reguates idle :)

Chris

[monkey_boy]

Excuse me for being a bit dim, but i am not looking under my bonnet at the moment. So the two valves to check in the photo are the one closer to the front panel and the one closer to the bulkhead? Arethey simple pull off push on valves?

[SaffronC70]

Excuse me for being a bit dim, but i am not looking under my bonnet at the moment. So the two valves to check in the photo are the one closer to the front panel and the one closer to the bulkhead? Arethey simple pull off push on valves?

Yeah (the middle one is the one I added) - the one close to the bulkhead is just a connection to the inlet pipe - pull this off and you should be able to suck on it, but not blow.

Chris

[Frisbee78]

Hi all,
I just wanted to let you all know that I took the car to Volvo to get the software upgrade (that's free) and now the engine idles fine at 900 rpm (on the dash). I don't know what this software upgrade does exactly but there you go...

Seb

[rgracin]

What software upgrade??

[SaffronC70]

Hi

Did you notice a difference in throttle response ?

Chris

[monkey_boy]

has anyone got a photo of the ETM in situ? Whats the difference between the early T5's and later ones where the ETM isnt so much of an issue (build quality of the ETM?)

[SaffronC70]

The ETM is an electronic throttle module with steppep motors and electronics to control its position. The eariler T5s have a classic throttle cable and butterfly setup - nothing can really go wrong with these (the earlier cars don't have an ETM just to clarify).

HTH

Chris

[Frisbee78]

Hi

Did you notice a difference in throttle response ?

Chris

I only had the car for 3 weeks mainly driving in city and cruising on motorway, so I haven't really noticed any difference.
However, it is easier to drive in slow city traffic as the idle is now steady.

Seb

[Frisbee78]

What software upgrade??

Volvo has released a software upgrade in April I think to allegedly prevent wear and failure in the ETM modules of some 98-02 cars (call Volvo customer support to find if your car is affected). I have no idea how a new software can reduce the wear of the ETM, but these salespersons seems to think it's possible... If an engineer could shed some light on that one, it would be greatly appreciated :p

Anyway, I called the Volvo customer support about my suspected ETM problem. They advised to get the ETM properly diagnosed, changed (or repaired) if necesarry, and then get the software upgrade to prevent wear in the new unit (right). But I took the car to my local dealer to have the software upgraded first, on the off chance that the new version would fix my idling problem. Since it's free for me as I have one of those ETMs, I had nothing to lose.
I have no idea what they did exactly since it's all done behind closed doors (frustrating for me as I like to know what is done to my cars) but when I came to collect it, it was idling fine. I can only assume that the new software controls the idle a bit better than the stock version I presume I had.

I wonder what would happen if I were to get a RICA upgrade... Adam, any thought?

Seb

[Frisbee78]

has anyone got a photo of the ETM in situ? Whats the difference between the early T5's and later ones where the ETM isnt so much of an issue (build quality of the ETM?)

Here is a page with a pic of the ETM in situ: http://home.comcast.net/~donwillson/tech_info.html

Seb

[Blewis]

So was this "Software Upgrade" on a UK volvo at a UK dealer?

They swore blind to me that it hadn't been released yet.......

[akky]

interesting thread guys, just got my new black v70t5 2000 plate and just noticed the same problem. So if I read correctly a call to my friendly volvo dealer mentioning this problem, and i might get a freebee upgrade solving it.

pics will follow once I've spent 6 weeks doing a mr miage on it. Black looks soooo good when waxed well.

so if any members see a black t5 in sunny bournemouth, let me know.

Steve

[monkey_boy]

That explains everything! Its bloody Italian electronics! :D

[MisterLister]

I have a 98 V70 T5 auto; i brought it 3 years ago, had some teething problems at first with rough idle, the lamda sensors, maf and etm where replaced by the dealer which cured the problem. i now have the same problem (23,000 miles later) but here is the twist in the tale.
while the idle goes up (1200rpm) and down (600rpm) like a yoyo while in N or P; i can select any other gear and the idle will hold at 850rpm.

i have had a look at the pipes and resealed a couple of suspect joints.

any ideas to fix this

[SaffronC70]

Hi, the auto box will engage and load the engine, masking the dodgy idle.

Have you checked the one-way valves though ?

Chris

[MisterLister]

Hi, the auto box will engage and load the engine, masking the dodgy idle.

Have you checked the one-way valves though ?

Chris

hi chris
i have checked 2 one-ways they are working. are there any more?

[Dad Racer]

Where would I find these non-return valves on an N reg 850 T5? The idling rpm is sometimes ok (950ish) and sometimes as high as 2000!!

How easy is it to inspect/ replace the vac hoses? Getting annoyed with the car now, especially with the warm weather, high idling rpm and failing of the aircon.

[SaffronC70]

Hi, sounds like you have a dirty idle control valve - small cylinder on the intake manifold, clean it with carb cleaner.

Chris

[Dad Racer]

Thanks for the info - just gave it a quick clean and just for a while, i thought that the problem was solved!!!

When working, the revs idle at about 950 and don't move much even when the aircon compressor kicks in. But as soon as the aircon starts blowing unconditioned air, the idle revs increase to about 13-1400rpm, sometimes as high as 2000. Turn the aircon off, and the revs drop down to about 1050...Confused?

I have had the aircon recharged + seals checked, but still the aircon blows cold air for about 2-3mins - revs normal, then as above...

[Dad Racer]

Think I may be getting closer. Discovered that the purge valve may be faulty. It clicks intermitently, which I believe is a sign that it is failing. The search continues.

[Nigel T5]

Time to join in here, after much faffing about Ive finally replaced the MAF sensor (bosch of course). But the idle is a bloody pain. I have the geartronic box and when in aprk and neutral smooth as a nut at 700 rpm. put it into Reverse or drive and the wobble starts between 800 - 600 up and down and up and down bloody annoying in traffic. Any ideas?
Oh yeah V70 T5 Phase2 2001 x plate.

[t5kev]

hi i have just run the problem past a mechanic at murry volvo edinburgh he recons its the electronic throtle module it costs roughly £40 FOR THEM TO DO IT AND THEY NEED TO REPLACE A SEAL AS WELL

[C70 GTT5]

do any of these cars have idle control valves? i had problems with these once on many different cars

[timbo_1975]

Can anyone help out, i've got a 2001 v70 t5 unmodded 85k on clock, its started to rev unevenly. only seems to do it on idle sits at around 700rpm then drops to 600 and bounces back up to 800, does it a couple of times before settling back at 700.
Have noticed that if i turn the air con off it seems to sort its self out and if stood outside you can hear a click from engine bay before revs go off on one.
Codes have been checked and theres nowt showing up.

cheers g


Classic ETM.